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Givers vs Takers - Is it Subjective?
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So many posts on our discussion board during the last few days have touched on these topics in some way:
America and our interference around the world
Who's more deserving of government assistance - businesses and corporations or individuals?
The poor and the working poor; what are they entitled to as human beings?
Should we open our borders to immigrants? What about the plight of illegal immigrants?
What part do we want to play in the world around us and at large?
Dave Thomas often rightly points out that there are always at least 2 opposing sides of an issue, and even more perceptions of the very same act or situation. When Bob Banner sent out this video clip this morning, I wondered how our CCT discussion posters would feel about Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa... if you met him 2 decades ago.
America and our interference around the world
Who's more deserving of government assistance - businesses and corporations or individuals?
The poor and the working poor; what are they entitled to as human beings?
Should we open our borders to immigrants? What about the plight of illegal immigrants?
What part do we want to play in the world around us and at large?
Dave Thomas often rightly points out that there are always at least 2 opposing sides of an issue, and even more perceptions of the very same act or situation. When Bob Banner sent out this video clip this morning, I wondered how our CCT discussion posters would feel about Alfredo Quinones-Hinojosa... if you met him 2 decades ago.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Elise on -
I always feel like my time is well spent when watching a video promoted by KarmaTube.
They have a fantastic tagline: Be The Change!
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Permalink Reply by Paranthopus Robustus on -
The main problem I see with immigrants legal or illegal is.
The land can only support so many people. The job market can only support so many people. Over population is becoming a real problem.
People can not be blamed for going where they can make a better life for their family.
The only people I resent are the ones who cheat the system.
If everyone would do their fare share of the work. In exchange take a fare share of the reward. Things would go a lot smoother.
Illegal people. Immigrant or not makes no difference. They drain the system.
The bigger things get. The harder it is to keep things running smoothly.
I wonder if maybe we have gotten so big that we can not maintain order and our standard of living??
So many different cultures. Some who do not want to tolerate some others. Can we coexist??
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Permalink Reply by Ed on -
What a truely heart warming story of a hard working criminal that wouldn't give up. We need more like this.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Howorth on -
Having had a grandmother deported back to England for being illegal this strikes a cord near and dear to my heart. The county buses that pick up the children of these immigrants during the summer when school is out of session so they can go to state supported daycare are paid for by whom? On tuesday morning, come by the catholic church around the corner from my house, watch how many suv's park there, waiting for their 'care-package'. 50 years ago we asked for migrant workers to come and help us with our crops, only 2% of immigrants work the fields. What's wrong with this picture?
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Permalink Reply by Frank Nerli on -
The Highwaymen (Willie, Waylen, Chris and Johnny) did a nice version also. I have it on my ipod.
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Permalink Reply by JOHN LANDON on -
January 1948:
Tragic death of immigrant workers
inspires a song of solidarity
The fire began over Los Gatos Canyon. It started in the left engine-driven fuel pump. The plane crashed 20 miles west of Coalinga, California, on January 29, 1948. It came down into hills which, as one commentator noted, at that time of year are "a beautiful green, splendid with wildflowers … a place of breathtaking beauty."
There were 32 people on board that day, but the names of only four are recorded for history. The newspaper articles about the crash describe an accident involving a Douglas DC-3 carrying immigrant workers from Oakland, California to the El Centro, California Deportation Center. Those accounts give the name of the plane's pilot (Frank Atkinson), and co-pilot (Marion Ewing). They mention the name of the stewardess (Bobbi Atkinson) and the guard (Frank E. Chapin). However, the newspaper stories do not include the names of any of the 27 men or of the one woman who were passengers on that flight, victims who were buried in a mass grave at Holy Cross Cemetery in Fresno, California. The newspaper reports simply dismiss them as "deportees."
One visitor to the crash site described the scene this way:
"I was born and raised in Coalinga and can remember going to the crash site the day after the incident. My father, older sister, and I viewed the crash and even though I was about six years old at the time, I can remember it as if it happened yesterday. It was a cold and damp day and even though the reports were that the site had been cleaned up, this was not the case. The sadness of seeing the meager possessions of the passengers and the total lack of respect by those who had the task of removing the bodies will be something I will never forget or forgive."
Three thousand miles away, a man who had himself once been forced to leave his family to look for work took notice. Musician Woody Guthrie left his birthplace in Oklahoma during the Great Depression and then did plenty of "hard traveling" before ultimately ending up in New York. He was outraged by the callous indifference of the news stories which couldn't be bothered to mention the names of the workers who died in the crash. Out of his anger came a song - "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos (Deportee)," a ballad in which he assigned symbolic names to the dead:
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria;
The song, as Woody Guthrie wrote it, was without music; Guthrie chanted the words. "Plane Wreck at Los Gatos (Deportee)" was not performed publicly until 10 years after the plane crash, when a school teacher named Martin Hoffman added a haunting melody and Woody's friend Pete Seeger began performing the song in concerts. The song's eloquent plea for justice for immigrant workers has stirred the conscience of fair-minded people in the United States ever since.
Often referred to simply as "Deportee," the song's continuing broad appeal can be seen in the fact that it has been recorded by wide variety of artists. Among the musicians who have covered the song have been Willie Nelson, Dolly Parton, and Bruce Springsteen, as well as the Irish musician Christy Moore and the English singer Billy Bragg. The list also includes the Kingston Trio; Cisco Houston; Judy Collins; The Byrds; Joan Baez; Arlo Guthrie; Sweet Honey in the Rock; Hoyt Axton; Peter, Paul, and Mary; Roy Brown Ramirez, Tito Auger and Tao Rodriguez-Seeger; and Paddy Reilly, among others.
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Permalink Reply by Dennis on -
thanks for sharing this story elise. it's great to see someone beat the system to become a grateful and contributing citizen.
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Permalink Reply by Frank Nerli on
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I think most everyone would approve of this man today (except maybe his jumping the fence) based on what he has acheived and the work he is doing. He is a giver by any standard. I like him now and I would have liked him 20 years ago because one does not "learn" or "obtain" intelligence, dignity, caring, integrity, fortitude or tenacity. This man has proven himself an asset! Thank you for sharing this Elise!!
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Permalink Reply by JOHN LANDON on
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and don't forget these songs;
Duke Ellington, Immigration Blues.
Bob Dylan, I Pity The Poor Immigrant.
Arthur Kylander, Siirtolaisen Ensi Vastuksia (The Immigrant’s First Difficulties).
Little Oscar Gang, Ole (A Norwegian Immigrant Arrives In the USA).
Pat White, I'm Leaving Tipperary.
Frank Quinn, An Irish Farewell.
The Pogues, Thousands Are Sailing.
Cherish the Ladies, The Back Door.
Big Audio Dynamite, Beyond the Pale.
Neil Diamond, America.
Arthur Collins, The Argentines, the Portuguese and the Greeks.
Ko!@#$%s, Xenos Ime Ki Iltha Tora (I Am an Immigrant and I Just Came Home).
Rita Abatzi, M'Ekapses Ameriki (America, You Ruined Me).
Dr. Antonio Menano, Fado do Emigrante (Song of the Immigrant).
Marilyn Cooper, Chita Rivera, et al, America.
Gaytan y Cantu, La Discrimination.
Juanito Valderamma, El Emigrante.
Gene Clark and Carla Olson, Deportee (Plane Crash at Los Gatos).
Buffy Sainte-Marie, Welcome, Welcome Emigrante.
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Permalink Reply by Paranthopus Robustus on
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Many of our ansestors jumped the fence. The givers built what we all enjoy today. The takers have always been here. They just did not have as many rights(???) in the past.
Today is independance day. Lots of good people did lots of hard smart work over many years to build what we have today.
Good and evil is mixed into every society. Lets all try to build up the good while distroying the evil.
Happy holiday and God Bless us all.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Howorth on
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Our system rewards 'bad behaviour' (the more children you have the bigger paycheck) Except for 'native americans' we all come from immigrants. Those from europe wanted their children to assimulate (sic) into the general population, not overcome it. My grandfather, father, sister, son and myself served this country so all who are citizen's may live in freedom. We gain from immigration, but, like any finite thing there is only so much available.
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